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Nov. 2, 2020

Building advisory boards - how does it work? By Skip Sanzeri

Building advisory boards - how does it work? By Skip Sanzeri

Skip Sanzeri, currently the founder and partner at Multiverse Capital and founder at QuSecure and Quantum Thought, previously the founder with several exits and failures. In this episode we talk about creating advisory boards - how to compensate advisors, what kind of contract should you have with an advisor, how to chose the right advisors and much more.


And today's a guest speaker will have keeps them very founder and or chair add Qe, secure, founder and partner at multiverse capital. And today we'll talk about constructing advisory boards.

So we'll talk about how those are. Great. When should you create an advisory board? How important is it? How much should advisors receive? Etc etc.

So skip, let's kick it off by you giving us some background on yourself and on multipe 1st capital.

Sure happy to constantly. So yeah, I've been in Silicon Valley for really? All my life aside from school down at Claremont in Southern California.

Came back and I moved into technology early with a group called Ziff Davis, which was a large publishing company, and we were moving technology from.

Microfilament stage to CD ROM, so it could be networks. So.

You can see that. There's a bit of history there. Then I moved into Internet companies starting with quote, dot com, which was funded by Sequoia Capital and we merged and we're sold into Lycos.

So, we had an exit there and have been involved in technology ever since and.

Moved into the venture capital space in the last couple of years as well with multiverse.

And also maintained continuing, sort of.

Founding of of technology companies I founded 2 quantum computing companies as well in the past 2 years. So.

Yeah, staying very active here in the Valley. Nice. That's really interesting. And 1st of all. I make sure we can ask you a question about the quantum computers. How how is that playing out? What's going on in that field?

Because I've heard about, you know, client years when they just appeared, I believe, and bag that was.

Someday someday that they will come 1 will actually monetize that awesome technology is that the.

Getting close, or is it kind of hear what's going on there?

Yeah, so it's, it's on the way, let's say quantum technologies take an enormous amount of effort and engineering. You're dealing with subtomic particles and.

These things are whisky, right? They're, they literally don't exist at times or they exist in a way function and they.

Are turned into a particle, depending upon the situation there are some big companies working in quantum computing Google, IBM, Microsoft, even Amazon has a platform now and there's some smaller.

And start up type companies, like forgetting Adam computing site, quantum ai on queue.

They're all working and that's by the way, you know, largely us, there's a lot of international quantum going on. So so they're getting better, but they're still not really commercially available yet.

However, I think the consensus is that in the next 10 years, quantum computers will become. Very active, and they will be viable for a number of applications.

There's a possibility we can have a universal quantum computing in that time. But at least we'll have solid applications.

And they really are very powerful. The reason quantum computers in my opinion need to exist. Constantine, is that.

You know, we've been using the architecture for our standard computing. Every computer we have works on us that architecture is there's 2 2 aspects to 1 is it's 50 years old, which is quite all.

But the 2nd thing is, it's a construct, it's a human construct. Quantum computers as Richard Feynman stated.

Are are really designed to mimic nature. He said if you want to really mimic nature, you build a quantum computer, not a human construct like so the problem with us is that it's running out of steam. It's basically hitting a wall.

Primarily, because they form factors are getting so small, you know, you're looking at chips where they're putting more and more on those to the extent that now the electrons are interfering with each other.

There's too much heat and Intel and D, and a lot of the chip makers are.

Looking for the next thing. So, in my opinion, we have to have something like quantum computing.

In order to move humanity forward, because the only way to scale right now is you just add servers everywhere. So you're gonna have servers in your kitchen and your bathroom and your living room.

And you're gonna you're gonna rent those out to the cloud. That's not. That's that's not a solution.

So, we're, we're bullish on quantum, but it is, it will take some time.

Right, right well, we'll see how that plays out. Hopefully.

I'll see that coming, but now, let's go to a more simple concepts. I don't really want to go into the technicalities because I barely understand those. So, question is about the universities.

So you personally got a bachelor's degree in micro economics.

A question is, what do you think is the most relevant degree for startup founders, or investors in start and does there is a degree actually required nowadays.

Oh, you know, there's pluses and minuses to everything. Constantine. So, is it necessary?

No, because we've seen people without degrees that have started and found successful companies however, all things being equal. I think a degree is a good thing because it gives you the chance to possibly get a job where you might not otherwise get it.

If you're not Degreed, then you're going to be largely reliance upon, you know, your own startup. And how do you do? But what's another degree? Like there's plenty of founders that have gone on to.

You know, to start at other companies and then have moved on I mean, a guy like, you know, look at Mark, Danny off or even Tom sequel both went into Oracle.

Had a lot of years there and then spun out and did fantastic things.

Because they could command, you know, they, they.

Establish themselves in industry and then they were able to command.

The Capitol and the people, and to to build really great companies.

But so, so degrees her, you know, I mean, I would still recommend that.

If you are able to go get a degree, get 1, but, you know, it's funny. People do do say, what's the best degree to have a startup? I.

I think I, I don't think there's a best degree because it really depends on your interest. For instance, I was not a computer scientist. I studied economics. I studied economics specifically.

Um, and I did a little bit of coding, but not enough to call myself successful at it. It's more along your interest lines so if you're if you love coding.

Then yes, get your computer science degrees, get your get your masters in computer science, or even physics.

Absolutely go that route and you can still be a successful entrepreneur for those of us who are maybe, let's say more.

More capable with words than we are equations and numbers.

Um, you can still be successful with, with general degrees. I've seen people successful in political science.

A legal degree law degrees.

I've seen people successful with things like economics and other degrees.

So, I think it's, it's less about which degree you get. It's more about.

Making sure that you're doing something you really like to do, because that can lead you to.

Entrepreneurial, and I would hate to see somebody let's say that was.

Really good at computer science think that a degree would get them somewhere when they really should be doing CS.

100%, not the case. I think that does just impossible in 2020. now. Cs is just.

Became so offer popular uh, but but let's.

Let's not talk about that. Let's talk about the positive sites so you've personally started.

5 companies that have exit and had just a few failures. So, what do you think was the major difference between the companies that have exits versus the companies that actually did not work out.

Yeah, that's a great question. I actually had more than a few failures. Um, you know, uh, it's interesting.

I actually think it's a, it's a matter of serendipity the right time with the right products. The right people the right funding.

I would say there's sort of an essential thing that happens when you have something great going, it just attracts more greatness. You attract the right people you attract the right funding you attract the right customers.

You attract the right advisors and sometimes you think you have something.

But you're not getting any traction and I honestly believe sometimes it's not up to you, you make a decision, you start a company, or you join a company.

You want to push it as hard as you can, but if you're not getting adoption over time and time again, where you're really applying yourself as hard as you can out there, you're doing all the right things.

If you're not getting the adoption, the traction either from customers or partners or staff, you can't hire the right people or investment. You're not able to raise the capital. You need.

There are some signs there that, you know, either your solution is an interesting or maybe it's just too early or maybe it's too late.

You know, we've seen people that have had great ideas.

But they've been years ahead of their time we've seen people that have started things that, you know, where they didn't do enough market research. And there's already a lot of it in the marketplace.

So, I don't think there is a magic formula. I think what it is is, and this is why you'll see VC will, you know.

Bet on 10 deals and get 1 successful and maybe bet on 100 deals and get 1. that's a unicorn or maybe 1 in the 1000.

And the reason is because they know that the chances of all of the others are going to be slim. And I think when you do start ups, you have to realize that you're probably going to fail.

You know, who knows 4 out of 5 times, you know, 9 out of 10 times, 2 out of 3 times for sure.

You're just not going to get right? And again you're going to use if use all of the smarts that you have the best the best methods of.

Market research say, getting customer advisory groups together.

Uh, talking with Capitol folks with capital, either angel, investors, VC, et cetera.

I'm working with product marketing, trying to figure it out, even with all of that. Sometimes.

If if if all of that's not telling you the right things, then you're best to move on and try another maybe another startup.

Are you there.
Constant, I think you're muted.
Can you hear me better you back? Yeah. Sorry I lost you there. Yeah. Yeah, you heard me or not but.

Yep, yep I did, uh, did share this whole thing. So should be good on the record as well. Uh, it was my Internet that died sorry for that. No. Yeah, I was asking your question doubts.

I was asking you that last question was success and failures and I was going over the yeah, I remember that part. So you finished the whole question there and was asking you a follow up question and my follow up question was.

So, how many now, I'm just curious. How many failures did you have you, you've mentioned that there were more than just a few. So, Here's how many was there if that's not too much of a personal question? No, it's not not too much at all.

It's funny, it reminds me of of that scene in the Guardian where.
You know, the, the rescue swimmer was asked, he's the like, the successful guy in. They asked him how many how many successful rescues he kept track of and.

He said, he didn't keep track of the success as he kept track of the failures. I kind of do the opposite. I honestly don't keep track of the failures while you you can learn from them from a process standpoint. Yeah I don't count. Em, I just move on and.

I think as an entrepreneur, you have to be willing to dump things and go and not worry about it. Just you've got to move and.

There are all sorts. I mean, startups can sale for a 1000 reasons. And, you know, or maybe more.

And sometimes you can have a great company, and you can run into a problem with the cap table with the partners.

Where if somebody gets greedy, or somebody thought that they should have gotten more shares.

I've seen companies fall apart for things like that, or or somebody drops a lawsuit on the company and there goes you're out of business literally right there.

So, it could be a lot of reasons, but, you know, I don't know, I probably had, you know, 10 or 15 failures for my 5 assets easily. So that's not bad at all. I think that's a good success rate, right there.

And that's very fair. I'll just move on forget about the company's special about the number of companies that you failed and things makes any sense to count that we're not rescuing people here. So move on.

So before we move on to talking about creating the advisory boards, 1, more question about your previous experience, what do you think was the leading cause of your personal theory?

So, in terms of companies of course, was it the fundraising so looking back? Actually, I'll rephrase my question. So looking back, I know what your experiences, what will you change in those in terms of fundraising.

So, was there some horrible mistake that you've done while raising money for those companies and that you would really love to change.

Yeah, you know, it's been interesting because I have a few failures that and I think you can learn from the failures. The thing is don't dwell on them. So, in some cases, yes. Just could not raise the capital. Like, I started a company and I invented the 1st.

Censor that detects air quality for asthma and allergy.

Folks, you know, some people that have asthma allergy or.

And it was a great sensor. It had an app associated with it. It knew would it would detect the air quality that would cause these sorts of issues.

Um, but just couldn't get capital for it just wasn't interesting enough to people. We developed the product, put it in production, started selling the units, but just not enough interest out there.

From venture over and, you know, we worked on that for about a year to try to.

Raise capital, move it forward, but, you know, just didn't seem like it. Was that interesting to those folks. So.

That was 1 of the reasons that 1 failed, but I've had a couple of companies fail because of cap cable problems where.

You move in, and there are partners that you bring in early and.
I've made mistakes with partners that really were the wrong the fit for the company.

And, you know, you, you may partner with somebody due to maybe a vocational expertise. You think that.

They can add some vocational expertise to say the product development.

But if you don't really know your partners, and you haven't known them for years, and you haven't worked together.

It's extremely risky and a friend of mine who was a Microsoft exit really, really successful guy.

Of angel investor now told me years and years ago that the best thing is to hire your partners. Don't don't bring them on as partners and founders. So.

You hire your founders, you hire your partners and that can be, you know, that can be in a sense with the cap table as well as with.

With compensation, but what you're doing is you're setting yourself in a position that they're akin to, you.

Not equal and I would say it's not as a CEO. You have to.
Set the stage and run the show until the point where somebody better comes along and you all agree.

But the problem with bringing partners on is equals without knowing and while this, you don't know how they're going to behave and.

Then you run into messes and I've had a couple of companies failed that had funding.

Constant and we were funded, but because of in fighting and the rest of it just ran out of money and that was it.

That's always so, unfortunately to see that coming, but now, let's actually talk about cap tables about, you know, gain those partners on board and specifically about the advisory board. So, from your perspective, what is the major value?

Proposition value add of those advisory boards?

Well, they can be multiple, so I am a huge fan of building advisors to support many areas of the company. And I, and I'm, I'm eating my own dog food, as they say, because even with our quantum companies now.

We're bringing you on advisors and about every aspect. So.

When you think of advisors, you're looking for people that can add value and your currency in exchange for that is equity.

And what you're doing is you're providing vesting schedule for them to provide a certain amount of hours per month to help you and your company.

But the nice thing is, when you're an early stage, the advisory board structure allows you to get help. Contacts skills, um.
You know, even tactical work done without having to pay out cash.
And this is really quite an amazing phenomenon that I've learned to really.

I guess hone in on and I think, I think as entrepreneurs.

Everybody should so, you know, when some people think of advisors, they think of, like, mentors and that's 1 type of advisorship. But, you know, for instance, in our quantum companies, we have.

Legal advisors we brought on 2 patent attorneys as advisors.

To help us with and they're doing that. We've got product advisors. We got product marketing, expert career in.

Um, the, the health products for Watson, I think it was called Watson health for IBM Watson.

We've got computer science coding.

Uh, development, architecture advisors, some chief architects are helping us.

We've got business advisors who are doing helping us with outreach and connections. We've got funding advisors folks that are tied into fundraising groups and our angel investors.

Who really love what we're doing and they're talking to the painful.
It's really we've got tactical advisors just brought on an advisor who's.

Actually, working on our sales process isn't running hub spot and some of the other to make sure that we're.

We've got really good work there and all of this didn't cost us a penny. It cost us some shares. But, you know, you're thinking a forming groups of advisors, numbers of advisors.

And your only downside is that you have to manage them, you have to keep them busy. You have to give them things to do.

And that's the advice I would say, if you're going to bring on advisors, make sure that you have a good plan of things for them to work on because.

what'll happen is number 1. you won't get your value if you don't number 2 is they'll leave.

Because they're not doing anything, so yeah, it's a, it's a great structure and I would, I would advise no pun intended.

That you really look at at building advisors into your company early on.

Right, right I'm love that description. I love that at least. Tell the number of advisors you've got there and the major point is, you know, you have to learn how to give people work, because that's so true. Like, people generally they do not.

They are just unable to come up with the work for themselves to do. So that's that's just.

Super important 1 question that I personally get asked a lot and I can really answer is what about the compensation for those advisors? How much of the company should you dedicate to the advisory report?

Sure, so there's, there's not necessarily unlimited or a certain number, but generally, when we think of advisors, like, I'll give you an example that our companies so we'll, we may start out. We'll say, 40M shares. Outstanding will.

Our current advisory board structure is about 50000 shares for a given advisor.
And we require about 4 hours of work per month about an hour per week of work for that.

That structure seems to work for most advisors if we have advisors that are more active and doing more for us. Like, we have a couple.

That are strategic advisers that work for companies that we can end up partnering with, or they could end up acquiring us.

They're doing more work, they might get a 100000 shares.
If we have a real key advisor who is, let's say, an industry expert well, known and branded.

Uh, somebody who can work across multiple fronts and somebody that, you know, any startup would like to have for their industry.

You know, you might even go higher. We've got 1 advice or at 400000 shares.

Which is 1 company. Yeah. And he is killing it for us. I mean, doing amazing things. We've got so much lined up with him.

So, you know, you don't want to give away too much, but you want to give away enough that it's it. Yeah, they feel that they're getting some compensation they're participating and an exciting start up.

And, you know, these are investing so you're investing these over you usually a 3 or a 4 year period, depending upon your.

Your stock option pool and how you're handling your advisory, but it really works. Well, yeah and you can bring on folks that.

That are providing the skillsets across the board.
And even at the end of it, you might give away 2, 3 points in your company. But.
You've got huge list in a lot of areas. 100%. I completely agree with you here. I think it's, it's not it's

really not cool when people are super green, in terms of.

The percentage of the company that they own, and just can't give out like this 2, 3% of the company to people who can really boost their startup. So really good point here. Now, let's talk about the contract.

Contract for the advisors, you've kind of mentioned it so you mentioned that generally it should be 4 hours per week that the advisor is supposed to perform and there's can be investing schedule.

What else should go into the advisor contract.

Sure, yeah, I constant 4 hours per month, I think is what we would suggest for the initial advisors about an hour. 4 hours per week, gets to be a little heavy because you're approaching.

Approaching sort of a half day a week,

which is a lot that would be for a more valuable advisor,

but for for standard advisors who are providing you with a,

let's say a certain amount of help again,

we would say,

give them a point 0,

2% in the company for for 4 hours per month,


Um, yeah, I mean, so regarding the rest of the agreement, so it really has a lot of legallies in it about you 1 thing is you want to make sure that you protect your intellectual property.

So, there's clauses in there about anything that the advisor does on behalf of the company that that stays with the company right there. And then you also have things like timelines that.

Uh, you know, it's let's say it's besting over 3 years. I would advise that you can either party can cancel anytime was without any notice. So, just if.

If ever it's not working out and and by the way, sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes you run out of things for an advisor to do.

Like, we have a couple of advisors who we have not been able to utilize probably in 3, 4 months and. We have to make a decision if we're going to be able to utilize them and it's not.

Then we have to be able to cut them loose because you don't want to eat up the cap table for no reason. Right?

But, you know, you'll have a clause there that will allow you to stay with with no notice. You can just let somebody know that. Hey, we're, you know, thank you so much you.

You can keep the shares that you invested, but you're just not going to continue to fast.

And other than that, there's really not too much else to it. There's some cross indemnification and, you know, standard legal stuff. But most, most of the terms are there. 1 thing is, um, is described in the field of interests. So.

You'll want to have a clause in there on the field of interest, which is really what you're having them do within your field.

So, like, in our area, it's quantum computing or quantum security for our, our postpone security company.

And you just want to make sure that they're not going to be working on.

Anything that's competitive at the same time or and that that you describe the field of interest. So you you give some descriptions of.

The area they're going to work in and the duties that they'll perform in, that.

Nice that's actually another thing I was going to ask you how, how to terminate bad advisors or advisors that you don't use anymore. So that's that's awesome that you mentioned that. So, the next question is about reaching out to the right advisors.

Or people supposed to do that, should they, should they have someone in mind already?

Or should they go through LinkedIn researching the right companies that potentially have been acquired them later on and reaching out to their top employees or managers or how, how does that process work?

Yeah, that's a good question. So, I mean, the 1st thing is is if, you know, as an entrepreneur.

That there are people who are in already in your network.

That could help you those, that's your 1st group is people that know you. So those could be people that you're connected with on LinkedIn. There could be people that you've met at past functions or maybe, you know, couldn't even family and friends right that.

Are in, maybe your uncle works for in the industry for a company, and you want him to advise you and on your app works for a company and you want her to advise you.

Those are fine so, 1st, go to your network and look and then, you know, again what you're looking for, people that add value. Okay. They have to be able to add value.

And by the way mentoring can be of value so some young entrepreneurs may want to bring somebody on senior that can just help them. Right? Talk to them. Help them get through things, make decisions because.

Like, I, I personally advise anywhere from 3 to 5 companies at any given time. I've got, I think 3, right now I'm advising as well.

And, you know, the younger entrepreneurs, you know, we've been around the block, the folks like us, I mean, we've seen a lot like my partner in the.

Q, security quantum thought Dave is the chairman of the band of angels and he and I talk all the time. We've seen hundreds and hundreds of deals in our lifetimes and.
We've seen how they work, and we've made we've made all the mistakes and.

You know, our, our objective as advisors is to keep entrepreneurs from duplicating the mistakes. Right?

When we say something, we know that's going to run them right into a brick wall. We'll speak up and say, don't do that do this and.

Most cases, they're, they're pretty coachable, but actually, that's another point is, if you bring on advisors.

You've got to be coachable. Don't bring on advisors who are giving you advice and then.

You know, don't be willing to listen to it. You got to be able to take their advice. I'm not saying you have to do everything they say.

But you have to at least give it, give it an audience.

And then roll it over to see if it makes sense from a logical standpoint, to what you want to do.

But, yeah, so so you start with your network and after that, then what you do is you go on LinkedIn.

Look for people in the industry that that could be.

Future customers could be future acquisition. Folks could be people who just have knowledge.

And then send them a note on LinkedIn say, look, I'm working on this. We're developed some really cool. I'd love to see if you'd like to join us here. I can see here in a patent attorney.

And, you know, maybe we can connect up and talk.

And you'd be surprised how many people will respond with a personal message.

I would recommend against canned messages that are just the standard LinkedIn ones, because.

That's not really going to help you, but, you know, look at their background, give them a nice message and target them.

And see, and you may have to reach out to 100 defined 2 advisors.

But those 2, 2 advisors could be the difference between success and not. So.

You know, you're really you're really LinkedIn is a great place to go. Once you get past your network.

Absolutely, I personally love LinkedIn I think, every single listener remind, everybody knows that so I'm not going to go back to that topic.

So 1, more thing that you've mentioned on our preach recall is the customer advisory report, which I've probably heard a couple times in my life and I don't really know how that works. So, can you elaborate on that?

Customer advisory board what is that? And how does this compare it to the normal advisory board? Absolutely constant and very good question. So a customer advisory board is different.
Now, what this group is designed to do is to give you advice on your product or service.
As it relates to the market.

Usually, these people will be working for companies that you'll end up trying to sell to 1 way or the


So, let's say you're, you're building, you're in biotech in your building. Let's say you want to develop maybe a a new drug.

And you've got a new process for that. Well, you might want to reach out to some people at tech or Amgen or merk, or any of the big ones or even the, even the middle.

Folks that, like, Sutra bio or caveat or somebody.

And you might want to reach out and you might want to see if they would be willing to join your customer advisory board or customer advisor, customer advisory group.

Sometimes they're called a cab C. A. B or tags.
Um, with these folks, the bit 1 of the big differences is.

You're not really signing anything with them. Okay. And there's not really well, there is no compensation because most of them cannot take compensation because it's conflict of interest.

So, let's say you're trying to sell to Gilly out. It'd be a good customer 1 day for you. Um, if that person takes shares from your compensation.

And then they end up with a deal, they may have a conflict on their hands that could really so, your customer advisory board members.

Um, are all sort of friends of the company that want to see you succeed because they have.

And and us industry interest in what you're doing.

They're watching you to see what you're doing, because they think they might be able to learn.

And it's going to help them on their jobs, or with their companies, because you might be working on something really, really cool.

And they want to know about it. Now, you have to watch your electrical property a little bit there. You could probably get away with an MBA, or or an NDA.

But, nonetheless, these folks are there and you gather them what you do is, you, you use that group to show me your product show of your development.

Say, hey, are we going the right direction? Do you think this process is going to work?

Um, what advice would you give us on this? Would you buy this? And for how much.

You could ask him anything. It's like half and it's like having a free.

Uh, pass to go to end user customers, rather than if you go try to sell somebody something.

You know, you've got all the resistance, but here, it's the opposite. You've got all the flow and they'll tell you.

No, you can't sell it for that. No that thing won't work, but go do this. No, don't price it that way. Cause we don't buy that way.

Price it this way, because we buy this way and they're basically give you a roadmap to success. And

by the way, if you get a good customer advisory board.

That's a pretty strong indicator that you're going to have a market out there if you can get your product developed. So.

It's a really, really good way to do it. 100%. I totally agree with that. Customer feedback is just a great thing and if you have.

Continuous customer feedback from the same kind of set of people. I think that's just amazing. Awesome. Great. So, definitely definitely. Take a look at closer at this subject if you are in the process of developing your product right now.

So now, let's just revise real quick. I think I already asked that question, but I have a really short memory so I might have your answer. So circling back with multiverse capital. What does it investing?

Is it hard tech right?

So multi versus actually interesting, it's, it's sort of a pet project to mine.

Um, actually, and invest in the cannabis space of all things.

So, I had, um, in 2015, I took a company public in the cannabis space and.

Then some folks for him to fund and asked me to join that fund.

Uh, as a partner and founder, which I did, so, this group invest specifically in global cannabis operations.

Whether they're early stage or late stage, so.
It's not tech, it's the 1 thing I'm doing that. That isn't specifically tech, but.
But it does have tech components as you can imagine, especially with some of the development of. You know, say cannabis and pharma and where they're heading with that but.
Um, yep, so so we are, um, I've got kind of, uh, 1 foot in that space and.
Uh, a lot of feet over in the, in the tech space.

God is perfect now that we have revised that let's move on to a last question of today's episode, which is a call to action. So skip, what's the 1 thing you want to lose her to do? As soon as the episode is over.

So, I would say if you're an entrepreneur, your business is any part of early stage, whether it's on, you've written it down in an app. Can.

Or you've got your company formed, or you've got your 1st, 10 employees on board.
Start working on your advisors now, go out and find people that can help you.
And you'll be amazed at how many people can step up.
Um, they, they get a sense of satisfaction. It's not all about getting compensated by the equity.
I can tell you, I've had some exits from it. I just got I'm still getting paid out on an exit from an advisory


I had from an company, you know, and it's a, it's a wonderful feeling because the team.

Made a lot of money and advisors got a little bit, and we all got part of the exit.

It's not all about that, though. It's really about the, the, the effective of, you know, you're having on the company where you.

You can give advice you can provide your your expertise that you learned over time and you can help others.

And help them get lift where you can speed things up like the group I'm advising now in this 1 company.

They're doing so fantastic stuff and protein unfolding and they've, they've developed these. Ways to create proteins for pharma that are super fast and fully effective and efficient. Faster than anything and they're soaking everything up like a sponge.
I'm not their vocational expert, so I don't have the skill to talk about.

A lipid layers, and all of the technology that they need.

But I'm helping them from a business standpoint and, for instance, I just put them in touch and got him with Wilson and Sandy. We set up a huge agreement for them so that they can get some.

Free legal work along the way, and they'll pay upon funding, but they'll be able to get their their safe agreements all fixed up. They can get their investors in.

And this is just 1 of the aspects now, we're going to work on some financial modeling.

I get their their financial models in place. I got them in touch with a group that's going to be writing some government grants for them.

You know, it's just kind of thing as a, as an advisor.

You feel good about so you'd be surprised how people like to help.

And again, it's not all about the shares with the option. That's all fun and games if it happens but.

It's really more of of helping these folks and so I would say, start make a plan for your advisory board.

Figure out the types of people you want and the best way to start is.

Where are your weaknesses? Right? Where your holes what what do you really need help with? Or what don't you like doing? That's a great way to do it as a founder.

What really don't you like doing go find somebody that will help you do that so that you can make you can make progress.

And then go find those people sign them up.

Uh, get them on board, make sure they have things to do and then, you know, have your check ins and your monthly meetings and.

You know, and get your get your work done and you'll find these people will love to help you and.

You know, as long as you treat them well, and you really appreciate them, because they're like volunteers in a sense.

Cause equity, well, you know that value someday today, if it has very little value.

You know, you really got to get to treat them well and get your work done. So, I, I'd say, start your advisory and customer advisory actions immediately.

Perfect great cultivation. Absolutely. Love it to make it more simple.

I think I'll narrow down to just writing about, you know, what are your major weaknesses and what kind of people do, you need to have to fulfill those weaknesses and then once you're done with that and move on but great call to action. Great episodes.

My conversation is going to be go to the description of this episode. I'll leave a few links that skip mentioned also leave a link to multiverse capital. Of course. And.

Probably to something else, not yet sure what exactly that's going to be, but something something else is going to be in the description of the episode. So definitely go there, check it out and as usually have a good date.